Thursday, December 17, 2009

Thank you Kamilla

I just posted a response to The Brave Lass, aka Kamilla, in response to this post here. Primarily in response to this paragraph.

Tonight I am also considering those who say hierarchy is unnecessary and even harmful in close relationships like marriage. But look what happens when two likes come together in the demonic parody of marriage called pseudogamy. When two men come together . . . well, they can't. Whatever they do physically, even emotionally can never, ever create the one-flesh relationship that comes of the act of marriage. The same with two women. And the vacuum created by two likes repelling each other in very real, if not always apparent, ways is a recipe for violence.

We've all heard the lie that complementarian theology causes, or at least encourages, abuse. Now if you believe that and you think two equals, or two likes, coming together in marriage is a good thing, you best not visit any city ER. Especially not in the wee hours after the clubs close.

She chose to delete my reply, which, as it is her blog, is her right. Sadly, I didn't copy that reply, my bad there. So I'll reply to her here instead.

Kamilla -

Given the nature of your writing it is clear that you come from a very sheltered background. I would be surprised to find out that you know anyone who is openly gay, much less anyone who is both openly gay and openly married. So I am deeply offended by your trying to paint every single homosexual relationship as violent.

You are wrong.

Most homosexual marriages I know are loving and long-lasting. I only hope my marriage can be as strong and last as long as they have.

My husband works in an urban ER. He has, in the past, worked the night shift. I have, at times, volunteered there with him, at the front desk, checking in people coming in after the clubs close, looking for help. I have some experience in these matters, and let me tell you from that experience, the vast majority of people coming in because a spouse or a lover beat them are not homosexual. Or egalitarian. Or a list of other things. They are conservative, evangelical Christians.

"I had to beat her, she wouldn't mind me. The Lord said she was to mind me and she didn't mind me." never came out of the mouth of a homosexual. Of any stripe.

Any hierarchical system where the equal value of each member is not learned from childhood is ripe for abuse. Any system that makes someone the other based on their gender, or sexuality, or skin color, or any other reason is ripe for abuse. Any system that accuses another group for all the evil in the world while taking no responsibility for their own actions (Because Santa Clause God will always forgive you) is ripe for abuse.

And in my experience, any relationship where the adults do not take active control of their sexuality will end up being abusive, or come close to it, at some point. This rarely happens in homosexual relationships. It tends to happen with disturbing frequency in Christian ones.

The definition of the word transference is

The redirection of feelings and desires and especially of those unconsciously retained from childhood toward a new object
In my experience it can be applied to the Christian community, when they accuse another group of doing or feeling exactly what they tend to do or feel. Now, you may very well not. I do not assume that you do feel or think that way. I think you are just parroting what you have heard from your elders. This might give you thought to where they are coming from.

Stop it. Just stop it.

Get up from your chair, walk out the church doors, and learn something about the world. Then give us your opinion on things.


Annie said...

I never comment here, so hi.
I remember reading in the comments of someone's post about submission, a commenter said, "I think this is sad. My husband and I have an egalitarian marriage." Then next comment was in response to that comment, saying "A marriage where someone doesn't submit? See you at the emergency room!" At the time I was astounded - does someone in such a relationship really assume that men are so pathetic they cannot even have a rational discussion in decision-making? - but now your post here makes me think that actually, they were saying (not meaning to say, but telling the world anyway): "In my marriage, when one does not submit, we end up in the emergency room."

Annie C said...

I think it's all about the transference. In their marriage when one does not submit they end up in the emergency room, so they assume all marriages could be like that. And if it's a marriage between two people who are less than somehow, then it must be worse and always end up in violence.

Now, I must clarify, I'm not saying that Christian marriages are always violent. Nothing done by humans is ever a constant, as we are all so different. But a hierarchical social structure where people are discouraged from taking active control of their sexuality and where they are told that they bear no responsibility for their actions is just a set up for violence. The problem is inherent in the system.

And since they are forced to believe that theirs is the perfect system, or else why would they remain in it, they must believe that any other system must be worse.

Corrie said...

Annie C,

I think you be onto something when you talk about transference.

In fact, Kamilla stated this on another blog:

"“I don’t know that a bride’s first sexual experience *should* be velvet-gloved violence – but I know that it *is*........The taking of a maidenhead is no gentle act. If you don’t see that, you understand nothing of men and women, the way of a man with a maid, of marriage, that wooing is costly and necessitates conquering or it is worthless. ”'

This was in response to a discussion about her mentor's (Bayly) blog post on "velvet gloved violence" or wooing in warfare. Both of those terms are used to describe a man who comes courting for a woman. Bayly asserted that he must do some sort of violence/warfare against the woman and her family.

You said: "Nothing done by humans is ever a constant, as we are all so different."

Exactly. That is why patriarchy and any other world system doesn't work.