Thursday, June 12, 2008

Lies, dammed lies, and threats

photo © Adrian van Leen for CC:PublicDomain

In an earlier post I wondered who got to the Judge in the FLDS case. Turns out old Cassandra may have struck again


Report: Judge in polygamy case threatened

Salt Lake City, Utah (AP): The home of a judge in Texas who ordered the removal of 440 children from a polygamist ranch is under guard after Utah and Arizona authorities warned of "enforcers" from the sect, a newspaper reported Wednesday.

Police assigned to Judge Barbara Walther's San Angelo, Texas, house were provided dossiers and photos of 16 men and women deemed a threat, the Deseret News said.

"There are many individuals who are willing to give up their life for the cause and you can never underestimate what a religious fanatic is capable of," said e-mails obtained from the Washington County sheriff's office through state public records law.

Can't say I blame her. Odds are she has a family of her own to worry about, and those religious types can carry a lot of threat.

Rod Parker, a Salt Lake City-based attorney for the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, said law enforcement has nothing to worry about.

"Have they ever seen an act of intimidation or violence against law enforcement from the FLDS community at all, ever?" he told the newspaper. "Before they start spreading those kinds of rumors, they ought to be able to ID an example of them ever doing that in the past."

Rest of the story here
No, but whoever said it had to come from the FLDS community, even if that was the example they used in the first paragraph.

CD Host of the Church Discipline blog and Pastor Johnson of have been discussing and debating the concept of church discipline for a while now. What a lot of these patriocentric churches will do, near as I can tell, is try to ruin your life if you cross them. If you do something they don't agree with even if it has nothing to do with church. Like be the judge in a custody case when they think it was all about persecution of Christian Homeschoolers.

Let's just start with psychological coercion, shall we?

Let me clarify a few points:


Destroy your life
  • Kick you and your family out of your church
  • Tell you you and your family are cut off from your Deity and are condemned to hell
  • Order everyone one in church not to speak to you
  • Tell all the other churches in the area how bad you are and browbeat them into not letting you in
  • Call your neighbors and tell them they are going to hell if they speak to you
  • Ditto your boss
  • Ditto your coworkers
  • Ditto your spouse's boss and coworkers
  • Ditto your children's teachers and schoolmates
  • Ditto your extended family
  • Ditto anyone in the next town you move to that fits into the above categories.
Reference CD Host up there, also Jen at JensGems,, and don't be surprised if I add to this list.

(and anyone who thinks a Judge shouldn't/couldn't be this gullible, I ask you to read over Cindy Kunsman's excellent work on churches and mind control, found at

All of this is before any physical threats enter the mix.

Now I started out as a Catholic, spent my young adulthood as a Pagan, returned to the Catholic Church and now consider myself a UU/Freethinker, none of whom practice this bullcr*p. I've also spent my whole life living west of the mountains of the west, where bullcr*p like this rarely, if ever, goes on. I had no clue until the patriocentrics set off my inner Cassandra, what I call that little voice that tells me that there is something dangerous in that rhetoric, pay attention. It utterly amazes me that people would put up with that, but in a world with no other resources they would. In a world where your boss, everyone you know, and local law enforcement all attend the same two or three churches, and they all sip from the same font of opinion making, it could happen.

I look at it this way. Remember the red/blue county map from a previous election? This one? The redder the county the bigger the chance of this happening. And no, I'm not going into the political connection here. It's just a handy map. I will only say I've spent my entire life in completely blue counties up till now, as have all my friends, and as involved as we have been in religion and politics, we didn't have a clue. Now I'm in a purely purple state, and we do have one of those churches out here with a remarkable amount of political pull. I could see them causing someone a great deal of harm and trouble.

Anyone else seeing a pattern to Pre-WW II German here? Perhaps the communist USSR? Or is that just me?


Now, about the Patriocentrists/those who share their baggage thinking this was all about persecution of Christian Homeschoolers. Isn't it painfully obvious they were trying to protect children from abuse?

Apparently not:

Stacy MacDonald, of Passionate Housewives fame, on the subject:

Court Rules Texas Acted Improperly in seizing FLDS children
Guilty Until Proven Innocent
Old enough? Says who?
Dangerous Cult or Dangerous Precedent?

Now, like everyone, Stacy has a right to her opinion. But her and her husband are leaders in patriocentric circles, and I believe her posts, and the comments to her post, are clear examples of the stand that group is taking on the subject. That being that the FLDS was persecuted for:

  • Being Christian
  • Homeschooling
  • Dressing modestly
  • Avoiding the media
  • Living a healthy, simple lifestyle
and that anyone else who follows this pattern is next. The CPS is coming for your children if you live this way.

It's not just Stacy, let anyone think I'm picking on her. It's also Deputy Headmistress at The Common Room has been carrying the main banner for this. She has too many posts to link to. They also have their own website going, The Freedom Liberty Defenders Society. Here's an example:
"The “Midlothian Plan” to separate the Mother’s from the children was made prior to any announced “Decision” made by the Gestapo concerning the determination of abuse. Buses ordered, storm troopers at the ready, the Salvation Army location arranged, even the back up site where the children would be ripped away from their Mother’s arms was arranged PRIOR to April 14th when the deportation was to begin on the gestapo’s Final Solution to the problem. The Governor’s office made all these plans with the possibility that the “Judge” would return them home for lack of evidence 3 days later? Do you want to buy a bridge?"
From my reading on these writings, and others which I will add as I find them, this is their stand on the subject. They have clearly stated it publicly.


So, put those two together and tell me what kind of conclusions you come up with? Yep, I don't blame the Judge for being afraid. Not one little bit.

Now, go look at that map again and tell me we're one country.

My heart aches for those little girls, for all the girls under patriocentricity, who may never know what it is to be free.

1 comment:

CD-Host said...

HI Anne saw thanks for the link. I haven't forgotten about the SPPX article I still owe you. Working its way through the queue. Good article here.

Lately I've been discoursing quite a bit with left fundamentalist, the complimentarians rather than the patriarchs. Here the coercion is of a different nature since the community is less closed off. You may want to start adding the SGM sites to your list.